There is a recent article in the WSJ talking about the possible breakup of Spain. I am surprised by how much information about what is going on here can be read in the international media. I have read the article and it summarises what happens here more or less quite well:
This post is thought for those who want an answer to some of its questions and use Internet for that case. Needless to say that here you will find an answer but needless to say too that the answer may not be the one you would desire.
So should the US support Catalonia independence?
Well, at first, right now, it is obvious that the US just should remain silent. As any other country the US should wait and see …
But let’s imagine that the day comes when the world needs to know what the US has to say. Well, in this case, I imagine that the US just have to see what the EU says.
Once that said is it important to the US an independent Catalonia? Can that be good for the US? Some benefit of it?
It is obvious that if the US supports Catalonia indepence that can bring more little independence states into the European Union. Is htis good for the US? I imagine that this depends in the way this affects the EU.
Wrting this I am realizing how something that can be very important for us in Catalonia it cannot be at all important outside Catalonia or Spain.
As far as I know new states have been born in two ways: after a violent conflict or after an agreement. In the case of Spain and Catalonia it is not possible for me to imagine a violent conflict to take place as we are inside the European Union. Any violent conflict it would mean we go out of the EU at once, I imagine. And an agreement, we have not agreement right yet …
The other day an American professor or soemthing was asked how coud Catalonia get independnece? He said that one of the ways to have an independent Catalonia is that the world wants it! Until now it seems that only people in Catalonia want that and not everybody.
So I have thought what could give an independent Catalonia to the world that could make an independent Catalonia to be very welcomed by the planet?
And this is my proposal. Catalonia, if it gets independent it will be a fruit of the European Union. Without the existence of the European Union it is difficult that we would be talking about an independent Catalonia.
So if a possible independent Catalonia is a fruit of the European Union then an independent catalonia must wear a European Union stamps that shines around the planet. And what has being making the European Union all this years: TO BRING STEP BY STEP, LITTLE BY LITTLE, THE FRONTIERS DOWN!
SO AN INDEPENDENT CATALONIA SHOULD BE THE FIRST STATE OF THE WORLD WITHOUT HAVING BORDERS!
Some centuries ago, cities used to have walls around them. Now they do not have them!
So now it is the same! CATALONIA SHOULD NOT HAVE BORDERS!
For Catalonia it should not be difficult to do so! All around it the same language is even spoken!
It may seem crazy not to put borders but are there borders between towns? Well, there are of course, but we do not seen them. The same could happen in a new Catalonia.
No borders with our neighbours! If a future Spain and France would want to put borders it would be their problem.
So,if we do not put borders, what are we doing with the new state. Well, we just collect taxes in Barcelona and we send our part to Brussels. Without having to send money to Madrid (at least directly!)
Yesterday I was promenading through a passeig (a street where you walk in the middle and you have two rows of trees) here in Catalonia when I realise that whatever my feelings about the independence or not of Catalonia I was LIVING IN CATALONIA.
I realized that whatever I was a big enthusiast of a Catalan independence or I was s strong suppporter of Catalonia remaining in Spain or even if I did not care much the status of Catalonia, well, I realized that in whatever circumstance I was living in a very special moment of history for both Catalonia and Spain.
If Catalonia was going to be independent that would mean I was born with Spanish nationality and I was going to change to another nationality. Quite a change that does not happen to everybody! A lot of people live all their live with the same nationality.
So, as I was promenading through the streets here in Catalonia I realized that even if I did not care about what was going on or I cared much something serious was going around.
And I can assure that this brought me a lot of energy because whatever it happened at the end it was obvious that there was going to be a change. In some way I saw all this as Catalonia being born again or as its last defeat. I saw that Catalonia was going to fly so high that it could end quite far awy or it could fall down too. And the fall could be quite hard.
Then as I was walking through the streets here in Catalonia I felt quite proud to be just at this moment in Catalonia. Because it was one of the few times I felt part of history (it happened to me the same the first time I got euros from the ATM) I look around and saw other people and then I realized that a lot of eyes were going to watch us! Spain may be putting us in a bad situation but it was sure that on November 25th a lot of people in Spain will be watching the Catalan results to see how much more independene vote had even increased since September 11th.
But I am not talking just about people in Catalonia dreaming about an independent state. I am talking about other people too. I am thinking about the people in Catalonia that want to remain in Spain. For them I imagine that this moment it must be very important. I am sure they have been thinking the best way according to them to stay in Spain.
So, it is not so much about feeling part of the ones who want indepence or not. It is the sense that we are in a historical moment. Now in Catalonia, I doubt there not a lot of people that are proud to contribute to a new state … or to remain inside Spain.
Let me take, for example, Alicia She is the one behind the Catalan PP. She is the one wanting Catalonia to remain in Spain in any case. For this woman now it must be a very important time for her. Not a boring time! In Catalonia I imagine a lot of people see in her in her Spanish side. But I imagine that outside Catalonia, people from her party, see in her her Catalan side. When Aznar wants a recentralization of Spain and she says publicly that she does not want to I feel that at last we all Catalan are united by defending whatever we can according to our ideas.
Some years ago I remember to have been outside Catalonia with a friend from Catalonia. When we are in Catalonia I seem to be the more Catalan nationalistic and he seems to be quite happy with Spain. Well, when we are in Catalonia we speak Castilian between us. Well, when we were outside Catalonia he asked me that we both spoke Catalan! That made me think that maybe he and I were in fact saying something and feeling otherwise. It never occurred to me to speak Catalan outisde Catalonia with him. But he wanted to show to the people outside Catalonia we were from Catalonia. I did not feel that need. So, who was more nationalistic him or me?
Another thing that I realized it is that this situation in Catalonia coul dunite people because whatever we thought it was obvious that our future was at stake.
We all know from history books what has happened in Catalonia in the last century. We know that Catalonia has alsways wanted more and more power. Anyone living in Catalonia knows that. So now, whatever one wants to remain in Spain or not, we all knew were in a part of Spain that is known all around Spain because some people here want to become independent. What has changed now is that this part now has found a voice in a main party.
Maybe I am not the great supporter of independence other are and in fact I do not know what I would vote in a referendum or consultation but I, as most people in Catalonia, want Catalonia to have its say. And in this sense I feel very proud of people around me! There is not sacred reason whatsoever, I repeat whatsoever, why we should be ruled from the city of Real Madrid and not from the city of FC Barcelona. Is it written on the stars the Barcelona and its surroundings should be ruled for eternity from a city, that even not existed, some centuries ago? The old Imperial Tarraco, the old Barcino should be ruled from a city that was just created some centuries ago? If other people around the peninsula think they should be ruled from a place called Madrid is their problem. I just want to be ruled from Barcelona. And not because I do not feel Spanish or whatever or because I just feel Catalan or whatever. It has nothing to do with that. It is simply because there is something much more important to me that anything: FREEDOM. Let Spain give me the choice to be FREE and vote about me wanting to depend from Barcelona or Madrid and I may have a doubt. But not letting me even express myself it is obvious I would prefer before to depend from Barcelona. Not because I do not like Madrid but because as Brussels will become each day more important I find upsetting to depend from so many places. Madrid, Barcelona, Brussels and Berlin is too much. With Brussels and Barcelona I think it would be much better.
As I have said in other posts the current conflict between Spain and Catalonia is not just an internal problem south of the Pyrenees. It is a European problem and those who do not realise that will pity that in the years to come.
This morning I have realized that the conflict between Catalonia and Spain could not only bring Catalonia and Spain to a terrible scenario but that in fact Catalonia and Spain could even destroy the European Union. I know it sounds crazy but let me tell you my worries. I hope I am totally wrong.
First of all let me tell you what is going on. In some weeks we have an election in Catalonia. If the parties that want Catalonia to decide its own future win they will ask fro a referendum or a consultation. Madrid refuses that. So we will have a big conflict that could last for some months or years.
In any case (and in contrast with Scotland good terms found between Salmond and Cameron) well in Spain and in Catalonia we will reach a point that it is going to be very very dramatic!: In some way we the Catalan we will vote and say what we want.
If this votes says we want to be a new state inside the European Union this is a big problem not just for Spain (Spain does not want a referendum, consultation or nothing) It is a problem for Europe.
If we Catalan people say we want to to be a new state in Europe and Spain refuses to listen to us what will the rest of European partners do???
One possibility is to say this is an internal Spanish affair. Well, this can be an answer for some weeks or months but at some point some country, or some part of another country will be in the same situation that Catalonia. The Republic of Venice will want to be a reality too maybe!
So what I mean is that the conflict between Catalonia and Spain is not just an internal affair because it is a conflict about how we see democracy!!! It is a democratic problem!
So, if Europe now just says it is an internal problem then in the future we will have chaos.
I am totally certain that if the majority of Catalonia says yes to a new state it is impossible to think that a whole continent remains silent! Will the UK or Scotland do not say a word about that?
So at some point some will support the fact that something must be done. Somebody will realise in Europe that it is not possible that a little part of Europe where most people may not want to belong to Spain are obliged to that. If other countries do not listen to what has happened in Catalonia they may even end having the same secession affair inside their states! The people of Bayern, the people of Venice, etc at some point will say something.
Or maybe countries from outside Europe say something.
So imagine that at some point a country of some weight says something. What happens then? Imagine Germany telling Madrid something.
I do not know but I think that at some point what is happening in Catalonia in the next months is going to divide the European Union! And this can be terrible! If people in Spain have the feeling that Catalonia is becoming independent because Berlin or London support the result of a consultation or a referendeum this would bring a problem to the unity of Europe. Maybe Spain would then want to leave the European Union. it would be quite hard for some people in Spain to think that the price they have to pay inside the European Union is that Berlin or Brussels dictate which are the borders in Europe!
So the best would be now to find a common solution between all memebers in Europe! It must be a solution that brings stability! If we had had already MEHR EUROPA in Spain and Catalonia maybe I would not be writing this! If Europe had put a limit in the solidarity of Catalonia to the rest of Spain maybe people in Catalonia would not be so angry with Madrid.
I am in favour of Catalonia having the last say about its future but I am also worried that at the end it may seem as if it was Berlin the one who decides which borders we have in Europe!!!!!! If Europe does not help Catalonia and Spain to find some kind of agreement between them then there will be a point when Europe will have a hot potato in their hands! Does anyone want to reach the point where it will seem as if Spain breaks in parts just because Germany accepts that? Or Italy loses Venice because Germany accepts that?
That we in Catalonia are ruled from Barcelona instead of Madrid seems to me wonderful but I am afraid that we end by just having an “independent” Spain and “independent” Catalonia just ruled from Berlin. From Brussels I would not mind.
Some people in Catalonia want independence and some other not. Unfortunately for both we are not getting a clear message from Brussels about what happens when there is secession inide a state member.
Until now the EU has been a source of stability around the continent but now it can create a difficult situation if it reamains ambiguous!
Can Scotland or Catalonia remian inside the EU if they break from the UK and Spain?
Europe should not only answer that question as son as possible. IT ALSO MUST PROVIDE WARRANTIES TO BOTH PARTS OF A BREAKING UP that Europe will do its best to make that the breaking does not mean a worse situation for the citizens.
For example, in the case of Catalonia and Spain Europe cannot say this is an internal affair. If we in Catalonia, at least some, think about a possible independent state is because we have Europe. Without the European Union establishment, its democratic and peaceful background and the existence of a common currency the idea of an independent Catalonia won’t be so successful in Catalonia!
So, Europe, I mean the European Union, should find a consensus so that Europe has a future. It does not make sense that Scotland maybe become independent and be inside the UE and we in Catalonia we are not allowed evne to decide our future and we are even threatened to be put out of Europe from some wonderful amigos we have in this part of Europe. We are European citizens! All this is happening because of the EU structure. So there must be a European answer!
If in Europe each day we are going to be ruled more from Brussels it is not strange that people in Barcelona and catalonia may think that it is crazy to be ruled from Madrid and then from Brusssels. Too much! Why not directly then from Brussels?
I am not only thinking about the lands who want to create new states. I am thinking too about the states that may break up. If Catalonia leaves Spain then Spain won’t get money from Catalonia in the current way? Is Germany the one to give to Spain the money that Catalonia won’t give?
This must be answered now and without fear! All this conflict between Catalonia and Spain is also related a lot about Catalonia having to ask now for money to Madrid (the Spanish government is giving us the money as if they were making us a favour!) when Catalonia would have much more money if we had not been during decades being given so much solidarity money to the rest of Spain. It is crazy that now we have to ask money to Madrid when madrid has during decades taken our money! This is ridiculous! It is almost as if Germany went bankrupt because it has bailout Spain and now Germany has to beg Spain to give them money to make ends meet! Why do you think that so many people want independence in Catalonia? One thing is to have solidarity with Spain and another quite different is that you have to beg Spain to lend you money because you have nothing because during decades you have been so solidarious with Spain! I feel very angry with this! Some people in Catalonia have the feeling as if a roberry had happened and now the one who has robbed as gives us a little coin and even asks us to say thank you!
All this could be solved within Europe! Europe could establish the solidarity between different lands!
Who knows maybe Catalonia becomes independent and then it happens that the EU then aks Catalonia to have a lot of solidarity to Spain and then we are back to square one!
It is thanks to the fact that we are in the European Union that we expect that even if we have another state in this part of Europe we will share a same currency and the borders will be open as it is now. But what could happen if the European Union collapsed? Will this mean war again in Europe?
In brief Europe must realise that its own existence makes that some lands in Europe want to become new states. Europe should try, in my opinion, not to encourage Europe divided in a thousand little states or just the opposite, a Europe too tighten and to rigid inside the current states. I am not talking avoid welcoming a lot of new states or rejecting them. This is too sensitive. I am just talking about creating a framework in Europe that:
1. Ensures that some Europeans are not bad treated by other Europeans to the extent that wealthy parts have to act almost as beggars (the case of Catalonia with respect to Spain!)
2. Ensures that if a state breaks in two Europe will do its best not to avoid that or promote that but to get sure that both citizens of both states remain in the European Union, respect each other and have solidarity between them too!
Europe should ensure that whatever it happens in Spain (to remain all ruled from Barcelona, Madrid and Brussels or let Catalonians be ruled just from Barcelona and Brussles) well Europe should ensure that Spain and Catalonia abide to the rules of Europe.
So for example Europe could tell Spain that it should listen to its people, even if they happen to be Catalan people. And it could tell Catalan people that Catalonia as an independent state will have to abide to the solidarity that Brussels says!
If Europe stays silent what we have it just some people from Spain (Almunia, fortunately, is different) that threaten Catalan people to have to leave the EU if we vote for independent (they do not allow us to vote for that but they tell us what will happen if we did!) And we have people in Catalonia that promote independence because it seems we will be so rich as we will have much more of our money for us! Europe should put order in this! I do not think it is right to threaten European citiziens of the EU to be put out of the EU just because they do not want to be ruled from Madrid! This is ridiculuous! Europe should say something!
On the other hand if Europe said something then maybe some could not idealize an independent Catalonia where we have a lot og money while Spain who knows how would do! Europe should not allow lacks of solidarity. I say that because if Catalonia leaves Spain, Spain will get poorer and Spain is people Europe should care that apart of Europe does not go belew a minimum level.
If Spain get poorer with a rich independent Catalonia and Europe allowed then why do we have Europe?
Now in catalonia I do not read this but I think that if Catalonia was quite rich and Spain poorer and Europe allowed that then people fromSpain will have to go to work in Catalonia. So Catalonia would be an independent state but it will be full of people from another state searching for work. I wonder this is what people in Catalonia want, really want.
Europe, please put order right now! Today is Scotland. Tomorrow can be Catalonia and the day after tomorrow can be Venice. Europe should take care that if this happens Europe is strengthened and not the opposite. And it must care that all goes smooth! We do not know how many years the European Union will survive. If thanks to the EU framework Europe divides itself in a lot of little states this could be problem without the European Union.
In Spain in Catalonia we are now at odds but we are still in peace. Let us help to remain so! Help us before it is too late! TRY TO BRING AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN POLITICIANS IN MADRID AND IN BARCELONA. Currently what we have is just some telling us they won’t allow us to have a referendum and people in Catalonia saying we will do in any case! CANNOT SEE EUROPE THAT NOW WE NEED EUROPE?? The Spanish nationalistic party PP and the nationalistic Catalan party CiU are not able now to agree in such a basic thing as WHAT DEMOCRACY MEANS!!!!! This is serious. Please help Spain! Please help Catalonia! Do not allow that each day the situation deteriorates more and more. If Spain breaks up in a bad way without a minimum consensus bewteen Madrid and Barcelona this could isolate Spain again from the rest of Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people in Madrid want us in Catalonia wnat to have fear that we will have to leave the EU but I am afraid that we end being both expelled from the EU!!!!! I wonder how Europe is lending us money seeing how unable are we of finding solutions for the disputes between Madrid and Barcelona. Real madrid and FC Barcelona are some of the best or the best football teams of the word or so that say! But the rules of football come from England! So maybe now is the same. We have to learn from England again I think. But if in madrid do not like to learn from David Cameron at least Brussels should bring some rules to this dispute between Madrid and Barcelona!
- Brian Wilson: SNP can’t make rules for Europe (scotsman.com)
- Uncertain world: Will the EU expand via secession? (indrus.in)
- Catalan MEPs ask for EU help against Spanish army (euobserver.com)
- Secession Fever Sweeping Europe Meaningless Without Debt Repudiation (thedailybell.com)
- Guest Post: Secession Fever Sweeping Europe Meaningless Without Debt Repudiation (zerohedge.com)
These last days I have the feeling as if Spain was still not free. As if it was still in the hands of some who have hijacked it for decades.
I have the feeling Spain is hijacked. I imagine that some people in Spain may see Catalonia as hijacked by some nationalists? Dont’ they realise that Spain has also being hijacked?
I have the feeling as if both parts have been hijacked. Unfortunately we use to hear the voices of those who shout loud.
Those that have hijacked us have hijacked us so much that I even that the feeling that those who do not agree with the view of the hijackers feel almost ashamed.
We have reach such an scenario where we seem only to see a Spain where the autonomous communities almost seem a nuisance to erase or then just the opposite: the creation of another state for Catalonia.
We are again in a black and white atmosphere. We are again in confrontation. Like kids we can relax because we now are inside the European Union. But what image are we given?
Mariano Rajoy and Artur Mas should find an agreement. But each one of them is a wall. Some will go with Rajoy. Other will go with Artur mas. I only know that if I have a passport from another place, for example, a British one, I would not care about what happens here because I am fed up of this conflict between Madrid and Barcelona. I feel ashamed. I feel also quite ashamed to feel as in a sadomasochistic circus where a sir called José María Aznar, with a look which reminds me of a horrible Austrian man, speaks in a way and with a tone that I have the feeling not only to be hated but to want to me remaining in Spain so as to continue to hate and humilate me. It is horrible. Spanish peeople should not allow that people like that man speak for Spain. A beautiful land like Spain do not deserve to have such a prominence in voices with such a terrible look like the man of the Azores. What a nightmare. Spain, wake up! Your enemy is not an independnet Catalonia but being hijacked again by those who hijacked you in 1936 and imposoe you even the current king.
Well, before continuing let me say that me, personally, rightly or wrongly, I do not feel at all threaten by the Spanish military. I just feel as if I was inside a war of words between Catalonia and Spain.
Some minutes ago I have read in Gulf Times (not my usual source of news! Maybe my first visit to that website!) the news that four parliamentarians from Catalonia has asked almost for preventive action to the EU against Spain as there is a kind of threat from Spanish military to Spain.
I feel it maybe a bit unfortunate this letter but let tell to the world that some days ago some politician from Brussels said something that was not precisely a source of calm for Catalan people. I am talking about Vidal-Quadras.
So I do not know what to think. It is true that some military also said some words that could be consider as a threat of intervention but in no case these threats were coming from the president of Spain or the King of Spain or the army in general! What I mean is that I am afraid now we are giving the feeling to the outside world as if Catalonia was in a terrible threat from the malevolous Spanish military forces and I really DON’T THINK THIS IS THE CASE AT ALL! I would only be afraid if the presidnet of Spain or the king of Spain threaten Catalonia. Just because an eccentric parlamentarian and some people from the army have said some very unfortunate comments I do not feel threatened at all by Spain.
I think that back in Spain and Catalonia we should be very careful because at one point Madrid and Barcelona will have to agree in something and the more we quarrel the worse image we give to the world.
In any case, once said that I do not think at all that Spanish army is a threat at all for Catalonia (in fact in an independent catalonia maybe the best to cut expenses would be to have the same army Catalonia and Spain!) I think that it is time the international community realises that Spain and Catalonia need not just economical help but also political help! WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM BETWEEN MADRID AND BARCELONA and we cannot find a common ground!!!!!
We in Catalonia want to have a referendum to decide whether we remain in Spain or not. In Madrid they just don’t want that so they put as excuse the Spanish constitution. It is obvious that the constitution is an excuse because they could change it if they thought Catalonia should decide their own future. So incontrast with the smooth path in the UK with Scotland here we are just in a situation that can only go worse! It is very necessary that Europe does something! Only that Europe said the amount that Catalonia has to give to the rest of Spain as solidarity I think it could bring some peace. Because Catalonia is a wealthy part of Spain and we have been giving solidarity for decades to Spain and now we do not have money for ourselves! And we even have to ask money from Spain. Do you imagine Germany asking money from Spain? Well, for us people in Catalonia is outrageous that we have to ask money to Spain because we do not have because we have to give so much in solidarity! (let me say too, however, that I understand a bit too that Spain is in a bad situation so that it is not a very good time to accept less solidarity from Catalonia but I feel that now in Catalonia we have the feeling we have reaced a limit of what solidarity should be!)
The European Union must realize that the States of the European Union will break apart if something faire is not done. Tomorrow can be Sctland. Catalonia next. Venice tomoorow. I am not in favour or against independence. I am just again this happening in a crazy way! Europe should do all the necessary so that Catalonia receives a fair treatment from Madrid. The solidarity between territories should be a European thing to decide! And if Europe cannot stop the states to break apart then it must do all possible so that the new states and the ones who break can find in the EU a place to meet and try to live as neighbours!
Europe should not allow, for example, that Spanish government threatens Catalonia to be out of the European Union if we vote for independence! The idea behind Europe is to unite . Not to threaten people to be outside Europe!
Spain has two main ways to try to put a hold on Catalonia independence. One is by threatening the Catalans with an apocalyptic future outside Spain and they other is by showing to the Catalonia that Spain has also people so democratic as some people in Catalonia.
Because, let’s be sincere. The ones who insult Catalonians or threat Catalonians with making their future a kind of inferno outside Europe these kind of people are the best that can happen in favour of the independence movement in Catalonia. Each time somebody threatens to send the Guardia Civil to Catalonia or to “Spanishize” these are free propagande for the independence cause!
On the othe rhand moderate words like the ones from Almunia are not good at all for the independence cause! Even if his words coincide with some of the things we say in Catalonia! Almunia is a threat for an independent Catalonia becuase it shows a face of Spain that does not want to be seen by some in Catalonia. Fortunately for the people wanting independence in Catalonia Almunia seems to be quite alone.
In some way now some politicians in Spain will criticise Almunia for his words in he will almost treated as a traitor to Spain! (In Spain, like in Catalonia, there are, it seems, good Spaniards or Catalasn and bad Spaniards or Catalans)
So now we will see in some newspapers in madrid how they attack Almunia. And the more they attack him the more votes for independence we will have in Catalonia.
So, let me be sincere. I am afraid some people in Catalonia celebrate more the attack that Almunia will receive than his own words.
If Spain was prouder of itself should not show so much obsession about keeping Catalonia in any case. The more Spain shows that it gives a damm about what the Cataloniasn do the less independence vote there will be in Catalonia!
The reason why Cameron has agreed with Salmond because, first, Democracy is in his blood, and second, because, he loves and is proud of the United Kingdom. So, he does not want, of course, anyone being inside the UK, without wanting it!
I am sure that if most people in Spain had the smae thoughts as Almunia Catalonia would not only remain inside Spain. It would remain in a willingly way. Who knows, maybe one day the Spaniards discover that the more separatist movement now in Spain is the headquarters of El Mundo and La Razón in Madrid … Without them I doubt so many Catalonian people wanted independence!
I have always thought that the idea behind the European Union was to create a United Europe. So it seems to me strange that state members threaten part of its own citizens to leave them out of the EU if they want to create a new state. In the case of Spain this is still more grotesque if you take into account that Spain would be out of the euro and maybe the UE quite soon if the rest of Europe did not offer a bailout. So to be in such a weak position in Europe and even threat part of your own citizens to be put out of Europe seems to me just not a shame for Spain but a shame for the rest of Europe if they let use the UE as a weapon of threat and not of solution of conflicts. Besides Spain should not even dare to threat me and the rest of people in Catalonian. How are we going to leave the EU if we leave Spain if Spain does not even let us vote because Spain says so?
So now Spain seems to be worried that Scotland could be part of the EU because then Catalan people will ask the same. I hope some people in Spain realize how wrong is to be again in the wrong part of history again. Spain should learn from London. I think people in Spain should be more proud of themselves. And for me the way to be proud of Spain is not by forcing its current parts to be part of Spain but by getting rid of the parts which are not happy in Spain. GET RID OF CATALANS! If they do not want to be with you, pay to them with the same currency! If they want to leave Spain because in this way they think they will get richer, let them do that. Don’t act like them! Show to the world that for you are things more important than money! Your own proudness! If Spain is proud of itself and shows to be as open minded I am sure that a lot of people in Catalonia will go to live in Spain. On the contrary, if Spain looks old-fashioned and uses its constitution as if it was the law of God on earth not only will Catalonia will go sooner or later: some people in Spain will come to Barcelona or to London …
Each time I hear somebody from Spain telling that Catalonia cannot decide its own future I see this not as a sign that some people in Spain have very few confidence in themselves! I have been in Madrid. It is a very nice city. Castille is also wonderful. Maybe without Catalonia you won’t be so wealthy as now but you get rid of an eternal nuisance! Besides you cannot trust catalonia! Don’t you see? Now Spain is in one of the worst parts of its current history and what does Catalonia do? Cause more problems to Spain at the worst moment! Get rid of Catalonia once and for all! I have contacts with people in both parts of the Greenwhich Meridian … and my suspicion is that this is the best! Besides you will keep the old name of this part of the world! What more do you want?